TwitchCon 2022

In this episode Brittany Rubinsky, VP Digital Investment Partnerships & Brand Assurance at Carat, and Don McLean, Director of Gaming at dentsu, join us to discuss the semi-annual gaming convention, TwitchCon, and what's next for advertisers in gaming.

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Q: Do you mind sharing a little bit about your role and the day to day that you play?

I'm Brittany Rubinsky and I work on the Microsoft team here at Dentsu. My specialization is partnerships and brand assurance. And I would say my day to day is really working with our top partners on investment strategy and brand safety best practices and some global work too. And it's a lot of fun.

I'm Don McLean, director on the density gaming team. And, you know, we're a small and nimble team, you know, on paper, we've been around just over a year now, the team was really born out of the Global Solutions team as Dentsu had identified that there was a need to have more gaming focused expertise available to guide clients guide internal teams on just everything from gaming strategy and research to activation. I've been a gamer my whole life, and it's cool to actually talk about it and get paid for it.

Q: Why do brands need to know about gaming? Why gaming and why now?

Don McLean, Director of Gaming, dentsu

Gaming is massive. And it's basically everyone and everywhere. This year, there's roughly 3.2 billion players around the world, the market is generating just shy of $197 billion in just a few short years by 2025. You know, those numbers are projected to increase to 3.5 billion players and over $225 billion. So we're talking a lot of people and the old stereotypes of gamers being only little kids and stuff like that has been just completely shattered. You know, we see in the data, and we even see with our own eyes, you know that every generation is playing, they may have a slightly different relationship with gaming, but they're still participating in some way. And gaming has just really become so pervasive across culture in general, you see it everywhere, from small little glimpses of it to its full line presence across multiple categories from bashing and sports to music and streaming and really just so much more. It's everywhere.

Brittany Rubinsky, VP Digital Investment Partnerships & Brand Assurance, Carat US

I think that that was one of the more eye opening experiences that I had when we were walking through the convention center and just talking to streamers and different groups of people that were there just I've never seen diversity to that degree, old young men, women, people of every color it was you just you don't see that ever. You know, a lot of marketers have DNI as a pillar and have that intentionality really baked into a lot of their plans. And I think it's something that if you partner with a brand like Twitch or you are even in the gaming space, you're inherently DNI because the pool of people is just So, uh, eclectic.

Q: So let's dive into a little bit about TwitchCon. I don't know if a lot of our audience knows about it, can you give us just a day in the life of what was your experience as a whole being there.

Don McLean, Director of Gaming, dentsu

So TwitchCon is essentially twitches own cultural community event. You know, it focuses on the general culture of creators and live streaming. And it includes a lot of fun elements like eSports, there's more friendly, competitive games, there's education, there's workshops, and it's just a really cool place to immerse yourself in that work and meet others who are equally passionate about the space. It's hard not to think, well, you've seen one convention Expo, you've seen them all. But it was really, to me so much more than that, because you quickly realize that, oh, what makes all of these so different is the people like the people are really the ones the attendees are the ones who make it feel so different and special. And like immediately walking into TwitchCon, within the first like, five minutes, it kind of felt like, I was entering a giant room of best friends from kind of meeting for the first time. And it's just, you know, everyone shares that gaming and live streaming passion. And that's kind of the glue, that's that connector. But then also everyone kind of comes with their own unique passions and fandoms. Like, on their sleeves, love that.

Brittany Rubinsky, VP Digital Investment Partnerships & Brand Assurance, Carat US

They expected over 35,000 people, which has grown so much since the last convention that they had, which was pre pandemic. So people were super jazzed to get back and just like reconnect, and I'm a standoffish New Yorker at times. And I was completely, like, inhibited, like, I was just, I wanted to be out there saying hi to everyone, I could, you know, being in a place where you know, that you could just walk up to anyone and say, Hey, I really love that shirt, or what do you think of this game that's being played just to be able to be so open, it's a special place doesn't exist outside of that convention center.

Q: For brands, what would be the benefit of them attending a convention like this?

If you are a marketer, and you want to be seen as inclusive, or you know, really a part of I wouldn't even say like Gen Z or Gen A, because I do believe it spans multiple generations. It's just really about being a part of something that's inclusive, dynamic, and has a really big opportunity for streamers and influencers to talk about your brand. And we talked a lot about that, about how influencers and streamers really add to the talk ability and the relevancy like, that's almost your best advocate as a brand. And it goes so much further when influencers or streamers are talking about your brand in a really authentic way, and sharing that with their friends who are sharing it with their friends who are sharing it on their social channels. You don't necessarily have to be in the game space to participate. We saw a ton of booths that really took us by surprise, I think one was next beauty had a huge booth where they were doing makeup and, and it was makeup for everybody, men, women, old young, it didn't matter. And they were doing all sorts of different looks. I love makeup. I couldn't even like get into the line, because it was so long. And I just think like That's amazing, this beauty brand that you would argue optically, probably doesn't have a role in the gaming space has this huge booth. I think, you know, if you're a brand that is unsure about how you fit or if it's right for your model. It absolutely is.

What Audience Insights are most surprising to you? What do you recommend for brands as they're starting to think about audience segmentation when it comes to gaming,

Brittany Rubinsky, VP Digital Investment Partnerships & Brand Assurance, Carat US

When it comes to audience segmentation, I think marketers should really remember that gaming is so diverse. And as a result, the players gaming, you know, the players themselves are also equally diverse. You know, gaming covers a huge spectrum, everything from casual mobile games, such as playing Wordle, or candy crush in your downtime to, you know, playing more immersive virtual worlds like Roblox or Minecraft, for example. And it even includes people just watching other people play, you know, given especially the rise of Twitch, for example. So that being said, you know, it's important that we start to focus our attention on the motivations of gamers, you know, their reasons for playing or their reasons for becoming part of a gaming community. You know, we believe motivation-based segmentation is the best and most effective way for brands to really unlock powerful creative and media planning insights. Which is why to your point, you know, it's so exciting for us to share that, you know, we fused CCS with GWI game data, you know, that fusion incorporates numerous markets and regions to your point. And it really allows us to better tap into the mindset of players, while also taking into account those data points related to, you know, gaming, device usage categories of games, play titles, eSports, passions, and just really, so much more. And it's because of all of this work that went into the segmentation and the gaming report in general, you know, what I found the most interesting was, how our team internally, all of the teams internally, were able to sift through all of that data. And I mean, really digging into like, the various dimensions of it, such as like level of gaming and intensity practice, and really just walking away with those six gaming segments, you know, each one has such different motivations for why they play, and they have such different media behaviors and media usages. And I think it's just so exciting to see segmentation like this for the first time, because historically, segmentation has been very just like, oh, is it a mobile gamer, or a PC gamer, and it's just, there's so many other levels to it that we've been seeing. So it's really cooled to see.

Q: Let's talk a little bit about the role of streamers and influencers? How has that evolved in  the gaming community over the years?

Don McLean, Director of Gaming, dentsu

I mean, they command a lot of power for sure. I mean, if you look at Twitch, there are streamers who have upwards of 1011 12 million followers, and their average number of viewers is in the 10s of 1000s. I mean, they've they've built these strong communities around them, and, you know, are quite influential, not just to them, but to the broader, like gaming industry as a whole. And I mean, like, not even just the top tiers, even the mid tier and at the emerging levels, you know, these creators are also cultivating such a strong and passionate follower base. What's interesting is it's this two-way relationship, right? Like follower’s care about the creator, the creator cares about the followers. I think many creators have basically become these household names. And from a brand perspective, they're essentially the gatekeepers to a passionate and supportive fanbase, whatever that size is, on Twitch, you know, you're actively seeking out content, and you're seeking out content to watch and you're tuning into your favorite creators and supporting them in various ways, whether it's through monetary subscriptions or through community engagement. And I think it's just a really powerful thing because people are actively seeking to not just watch but to participate.

Brittany Rubinsky, VP Digital Investment Partnerships & Brand Assurance, Carat US

Yeah. And then I would say, like the market or media in me, that perspective is, oh, wow, I can partner with a streamer that has 10 million followers, 12 million followers, I think, like, the old thought was, we're gonna work with that guy, or girl and get the most scale get the most presents. And the streamer community, it's so eclectic. And yes, you could do that and partner with a streamer that is not the right fit for your brand, just because the scale is there doesn't mean your audiences. And you might have a better outcome partnering with a mid tier streamer that is more authentic to your brand, because then those streamers are coming up and they will potentially adopt your brand. So I think a big takeaway for marketers is just because you have that big, shiny 10 million 12 million follower, doesn't mean that's the best move, you have to go with the streamer that's most authentic and speaking about your brand into your brand, because the outcome is really exponential. If you hit one that's really on the money.

Q: Do you find that influencers and streamers in gaming particularly are much different than working with other influencers across the marketing ecosystem?

Brittany Rubinsky, VP Digital Investment Partnerships & Brand Assurance, Carat US

I think it depends on the type of influencer and like the type of content you're getting out there. Because I think in this particular discussion, we're talking about gaming influencers and like the gaming audience, they see through everything, not that other audiences wouldn't, but I think that there are other audiences out there that might be following like, brunch with Babs and yeah, okay, she's doing a Clorox that's, you know, that's fine that's on brand for her, but I feel like gaming audiences would be like, No, you sold out if it's something that they feel is truly and authentic, and that can be potentially damaging. So, in the gaming world, I would say it's a little bit different and authenticity absolutely has to come at the forefront. If it's fake, people will see through it, and your brand will most likely suffer at the end of the day.

Don McLean, Director of Gaming, dentsu

I think it's so dead on I mean, by no means am I like it. influencer expert. But gaming versus non gaming influencers, however we want to call it on other platforms, it's easier, so to speak to get away with like, with relationships that feel very transactional, like one way transactional, like, Here, take this money, please put our product in a post, and we'll kind of be done with it. Versus like on gaming. Bernie, exactly. To your point, I think authenticity plays a much larger role. And I think it's because you know, it's live streaming like you can feel you can set up a picture or video and post it on Instagram, but like, you're creating content live on stream and like, there has to be almost this mutually beneficial, like type of relationship where like, the brand is excited to partner with the streamer, the streamer is equally excited to work with the brand, and then working together to find like a really common space and like, good grounds like ideate around I think like when both parties come into it, not in like a transactional way. But let's make something really dope. Like that's, that's where the magic happens. And then I think people are really receptive to that when they're watching.

Q: What brands are actually getting it right now in the gaming space?

Don McLean, Director of Gaming, dentsu

Going back to TwitchCon. You know, I gotta say, just like I go in Brittany, before, I really thought the Knicks activation was just so cool. The intersection of Beauty and the gaming industry is just such a cool space, you know, especially as it relates to self identity and self expression. You know, seeing NYX and Benefit Cosmetics there was really cool. And the next activation specifically stood out just because of how big and prominent their space was. But like Britney said that there was a huge line around it the entire day. If you waited, you got to sit down with an artist and you could create your own like Avatar makeup look, and there was a selfie area you could jump into and one brand that in general, I think just kills that and was also at TwitchCon was Wendy's. I think Wendy's just continues to set the benchmark higher. KFC is another great example. And you know, they've been doing a ton in the space. So I love the creativity that's out there.

Brittany Rubinsky, VP Digital Investment Partnerships & Brand Assurance, Carat US

Plus one from me on Wednesdays not only did I get to jump in the metaverse, well, I guess they call it the windy verse. For the first time, I got to test their grape frosty, which sounds gross on paper, but was delicious, especially when topped with nerves. So I think if a brand is going to attempt to copy a playbook from another brand, not a good move, because it's already been done. I think the way to really do it well is to be a trailblazer. Some brands are going to be really on board to do that some brands aren't and that's perfectly fine. What I saw as a big opportunity is within charity work, especially transgender rights, suicide prevention, and then also supporting female gamers. And Don and I had a really great conversation with game her. They're an entity that that supports education, female streamers, they do a ton of great work in the space. And I think that in and of itself is an opportunity, you know, you find an area that you want to focus on as a brand. And there is a group of streamers, or there is an entity there for you that you can absolutely support and expand upon. But you have to be a trailblazer. You can't sit back and say, oh, cool, Wendy's did this, I want to do that next year. It's just it will not be as impactful.

Q: What else do you have for brands right now around gaming for good?

Don McLean, Director of Gaming, dentsu

There's so much opportunity out there. I mean, from our perspective, from the density gaming team perspective, you know, in general, we think it's critical that we, all of us, quite frankly, you know, do our part to elevate underrepresented voices in content in this space. You know, we're always looking for partners and opportunities who can help both us and our clients champion that the game hers is always like my mind always goes to them. I think they're doing really important and empowering work. If anyone listening doesn't know them, I highly recommend checking them out. Twitch themselves has a really fantastic program called the Creator Development Program, which is all about identifying, elevating those underrepresented voices and content. And there's ways for brands to get involved whether it's through Skype ends giving emerging creators their first sponsored stream providing education and guidance on how to up their game. Another partner that we have so many conversations with is community spelled the O is an x. But they do so much work about increasing representation and inclusion in the gaming and eSports space, doing a lot of work with HBCUs. It's awesome to see so many organizations and creators like stepping up and championing underrepresented voices. And I think that it's just imperative that us and industry just continues to do that.

Q: What types of conversations around brand assurance and gaming Are you having with marketers today?

Brittany Rubinsky, VP Digital Investment Partnerships & Brand Assurance, Carat US

I think broadly, gaming as a channel is absolutely perceived as more risky. Because it's just like a little bit more, the wild, wild west violent games are out there, they're prevalent streamers are very dynamic and can be a little bit off the wall, there's absolutely a lack of control. I think it would be disingenuous or just outright wrong to say otherwise. But what I would say is that brand assurance is a scale. And you're going to have some brands that are more comfortable being in a place that is more risky and a little bit more edgy, like maybe a liquor brand, or like the merit of liquor brands that are out there, versus a brand that has to keep a more squeaky clean image. So think like a pharma or CPG type brand. And I think brands have to be just be very self aware of what they represent what they stand for, and what they will not be comfortable being in front of. I think that that is where we spend a lot of time just like from an advisory perspective, like if you know, you will get a call from your CMO. If you appear next to Call of Duty or some type of violent activity, then maybe you shouldn't be there. But if playing a rivals game is totally within the wheelhouse then great do that instead. And I think a lot of brands have found ways to still participate in a way that is still very authentic to them and not in a violent nature. Mars Wrigley comes to mind where they did a few years back it was a rival's where it was like twigs and you had left twigs and right twigs, and you could like battle to see which twigs was better. All that to be said, there is a way to do it in a way that is fun and cheeky, and not necessarily super violent or off the wall or super risky. There are going to be formats too, that are riskier than others. If you do a live stream and someone drops a curse word, there isn't a ton you can do about that in the moment other than be aware that that might happen. It's up to the brand to really know their comfort level. And and really take it from there.

Don McLean, Director of Gaming, dentsu

Oftentimes we think about, you know, when we're working with clients, we have so many conversations that basically revolve around like, like, what's the brand fit brand impact suitability, and we get into those nitty gritty, sometimes not uncomfortable, but it's just like, like, what is our stance on like violence or obscenity? Or like red blood versus blue blood? You know, that often guys the type of activation we can do you know, what if you're aligning with gaming, you know, such as contextual alignment, you know, you have all the typical tools, I feel like you're used to seeing, you know, there's ad verification, there's like various tags and measurement and targeting that you can apply. When you go into endgame, you know, you can do your research to be like, Oh, I only want to be in like sports games, and you can just like, tailor to that. But then as you get into the streaming and working with Talent you know. To Britney's point, that's where it comes, it can become a little bit more dicey. And then that's where I think it's actually like, it requires due diligence on the part of the agency and the brand themselves to look at the landscape figure out, okay, which streamers are in our consideration set? You know, can we look at historical videos or chat logs and start to understand, you know, what is this typical type of behavior? You know, does it become more toxic? If it does, it gets squashed immediately, depending on the level you go into the waters get a little bit murkier, but it just requires everyone to both do the due diligence, but also, you know, at a certain point, you kind of just have to release control and you just have to be like, You know what, we're doing the best we can and hopefully it goes well.

Brittany Rubinsky, VP Digital Investment Partnerships & Brand Assurance, Carat US

Yeah, and I think it's worth noting too, that Twitch like they don't position themselves as a free speech platform, right, like, you can be banned. You Use pornographic words, if you are inflammatory, I mean, that is just not what the community stands for either. So I think that like, there are some really horrible things that have happened on that platform. But they've learned and adopted and have different terms of agreement to make everyone feel very comfortable, whether you're streamer gamer or advertiser.

Q: Any final thoughts before we hit the lightning round, whether that's from TwitchCon that we missed that we want brands and our listeners to know or just advice for brands in general, in gaming .

Brittany Rubinsky, VP Digital Investment Partnerships & Brand Assurance, Carat US

The big takeaway that I think is super pertinent for agencies and brands and advertisers is that you just have to be authentic. It's not worth the effort. If you choose influencers or games or programs that you think will move your brand in a specific way. It has to be something that really embodies brand values,

Don McLean, Director of Gaming, dentsu

Showing up knowing your brand but offering an experience that can enhance or add some extra joy to people's lives. And I think it's kind of like important for brands to step in with that giving mindset, like how can I add something to the community, its advertising, it can get serious, but it's gaming. So you should also like approach it with kind of like a fun, lighthearted mindset.

Brittany Rubinsky, VP Digital Investment Partnerships & Brand Assurance, Carat US

That definitely gets lost. Because marketers tend to be like, we need to hit these goals and these KPIs, and we need to move the needle from here to here. And sometimes the path is not linear. And that's okay. You got to be cool with the gray space.

Q: We're going to jump right into the lightning round gaming edition, favorite brand gaming activation.

Brittany Rubinsky, VP Digital Investment Partnerships & Brand Assurance, Carat US

Mine was Wendy's. Absolutely,

Don McLean, Director of Gaming, dentsu

Wendy's. It's so top of mind. I love the GG Frosty the good grape, the VR experiences cool, big fan of what they're doing.

Q: Most Interesting fact you learned at the convention

Don McLean, Director of Gaming, dentsu

Not necessarily something I learned, but something that was nice to remember, like when you surround yourself with equally passionate people, it like feeds you and inspires you to go deeper with it

Brittany Rubinsky, VP Digital Investment Partnerships & Brand Assurance, Carat US

Cannot agree more. And I would say like, it's not necessarily a fact. But more of a topic that came up that I was like, wow, I really want to look into this more was the topic of blockchain. And I'm not a blockchain expert. I'm not going to pretend to be one. But the sentiment was, how does the gaming industry properly navigate blockchain? How do we use it in a way that's effective and helpful? And you know, is there a world where blockchain can support gaming avatars actually moving from one game to another? And like, again, thank god Don was there to help me kind of conceptualize this more, but like, imagine if we're all gamers and we have a specific skin, or a specific costume? And what if we could wear that costume in one game and jump to another and keep all of our wins and credits with us? Like, it becomes like an IP discussion, it becomes like a legal discussion. But how cool would that be? And is that a place that the industry can actually go one day so I think that in and of itself, it's just a fascinating concept, and I can't wait to see where the industry takes it.
 

Q: Most interesting person and or company you met at the convention

Don McLean, Director of Gaming, dentsu

I'm gonna go with the gamer hers, you know, super excited to see them again. I think they're doing just such powerful, empowering work. And it's always awesome to see organizations championing diversity, inclusion and representation within the industry. So it's cool to see that

Brittany Rubinsky, VP Digital Investment Partnerships & Brand Assurance, Carat US

I am going to go with the dynamite twins who I actually ran into at the airport. I didn't know who they were. But they were twins that were dressed identical, which you don't usually see when you're in your 30s but I definitely like took notice. And they were on my flight out to San Diego. I watched them do a quick stream they were commenting on like the Just Dance game. I was like trying to sneakily like take notes on them because I was so fascinated. And it turns out they're Ali and Lexi, and they are two content creators and they're out there doing their thing on Twitch and they were just totally lovely. And again, standoffish New Yorker, I would have never said anything but by the third like random meeting I was like I have to say hello. This is the universe telling me that I need to meet these people and see what they're about.

Q: One thing people should know about you, but they don't.

Brittany Rubinsky, VP Digital Investment Partnerships & Brand Assurance, Carat US

Just something that has been on my mind the last day or two. I am a huge blink 182 fan. And they just announced that they are getting back to Gather again for the second time, it just took a pandemic and Mark Hoppus surviving cancer, but they are in it and they are going on a world tour. And I am so excited. I will be there probably for multiple shows.

Don McLean, Director of Gaming, dentsu

I used to really love doing eating contests. And so there was this eating contest, I think still is at Rutgers University, where I went called the grease trucks challenge. You had to eat like five grease trucks within like 45 minutes or something, something like that. And I did it. And so now I have the sandwich named after me at the grease trucks. It's called the fat cat clean, everyone should go check it out. And I got to meet Adam Richmond when Man vs food was filming there one day, and it was kind of cool to meet him. I guess.

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